From Politics to Alchemy Pay: David Plouffe on Crypto Policy and Potential

People forget this now, but at the time, the “conventional wisdom” was that Hillary Clinton would easily clinch the Democratic nomination. Enter David Plouffe. He ran a campaign that was innovative and groundbreaking – data-driven, online, grass roots and hyper-organized.

Since then, Plouffe has been a coveted Big Brain in the halls of both the government and the private sector. He served as a senior advisor to President Obama. He worked on strategy and policy for Uber. Now he’s lending his strategy chops to another insurgent underdog: Crypto.

“Crypto and blockchain, ultimately, can save people a lot of money, particularly in the lower end of the income spectrum, which couldn't be more important,” says Plouffe, who has advised Binance and is now Strategic Global Advisor for Alchemy Pay, a payment gateway that bridges fiat and cryptocurrency. The company’s partnerships range from OKX to Bitget to Arbitrum, and it supports Visa, Mastercard, Apple Pay and Google Pay.

Why blockchain? Plouffe views international remittances, for example, as a way to expand financial inclusion. “How do we get more access for lower-income people to financial products? How do we save them time? How do we save money? You know, this is the promise,” says Plouffe.

Then there’s the trillion-dollar question that the crypto space is now grappling with: How should it be regulated? Plouffe has a unique perspective here. Because he advises both the U.S. government and the private sector, he can truly see both sides.

Plouffe’s stance is that it’s essential for governments to educate themselves and introduce smart and adaptable regulations in the crypto industry. Likewise, smart businesses should actively embrace these regulations, as Alchemy Pay has worked to bridge the divide between the crypto economy and the traditional economy.

In a recent interview, Plouffe shares the regulatory advice he would give to both the government and the crypto space, reveals why he’s optimistic on mobile blockchain voting and explains why, in the next 10 to 50 years, crypto, blockchain and Web3 “are just going to get increasingly important.”

Interview has been condensed and lightly edited for clarity.

Let’s start with where it all began: the 2008 election. Just how big of a long shot was it? What made you think you could win?

David Plouffe:  I think one of the reasons we were successful is that we were such an underdog. Nobody that came to work on that campaign thought they were assured a job in the White House. We were there because we believed in Barack Obama. And he was very clear from the beginning that this was gonna be hard.

My view at the beginning was that we had a 10% to 15% chance to win. In many respects, it was a political startup. A lot of people did not give us much of a chance, which is familiar to most startup founders.

And like many startup founders, you found an edge with innovation. Am I right that many of your strategies were cutting-edge at the time, but have now become commonplace?

They probably seem pretty prehistoric now. Here’s one interesting story. This was back in ’07. Steve Jobs actually asked [Obama] to be the recipient of the first iPhone call, that ultimately went to Jony Ive. [Obama’s] lawyers said he couldn't do it, because that would be favoring one company over the other. I wish we'd overruled those lawyers because that would've been a great moment. So that tells you where we began. The iPhone was just getting introduced.

We didn't have the political institutions or organizations; they were all going to be with Hillary Clinton, somewhat understandably. We had to create a campaign out of scratch. So we utilized technology, we developed a website and we had a social network where people could sign up to volunteer. We really had to bridge the divide between technology and people, because it was the only way to scale.

So you’re clearly a tech-savvy guy and an early adopter. That brings us to crypto. When’d you first get into it?

I was in government for a period of time after '08. And I think that's when I first learned about it. I did as much as I could to study it. We would have conversations about it in the government, although it was very nascent then.

How did you think about it at the time?

First of all, it was just curiosity: “What is this? There seems to be a lot of excitement about it. How will it work? What's the promise of it? What are the pitfalls?”

Like many people, you start out as just a casual observer and enthusiast. And then, not too long ago, I started doing some work with Binance on their global advisory board. Providing what assistance I could, to that company specifically and the industry generally, but also, quite frankly, to learn.

I think we’re all still learning. Yes, there's cryptocurrency, but obviously there's going to be enormous promise with Web3 and blockchain, whether that's education, politics, government or healthcare.

For those who are deeply skeptical of crypto and who say, “What’s the point,” how do you respond to that? What excites you about the tech?

People are going to want to make sure that their investment, whether it's large or small, is safe and secure. That’s why you’re ultimately going to have a lot of regulations surrounding all of this.

That's why I think one-to-one fiat, which is something Alchemy Pay is spending an enormous amount of time on – it’s one of their marquee offerings – has to be part of the equation going forward.

Listen, there's unbanked [people] in Western Europe. There's unbanked here in the United States. And you look at Latin America, Africa and some countries in Asia where crypto usage is skyrocketing. For the unbanked, pretty much everyone has a phone. So they have the ability, in seconds, to move money. There are still a lot of remittances happening around the globe, and this [cryptocurrency and blockchain technology] makes that more secure. It's more speedy. It's done less expensively.

Can you elaborate on why that matters to you?

I mean, we spend a lot of time in government and politics, rightfully, talking about how we can help raise wages. That’s incredibly important. But there's a flip side that you can also focus on, which is, how do we decrease costs? That has the same effect on people's bottom line. And I think crypto and blockchain, ultimately, can save people a lot of money, particularly in the lower end of the income spectrum, which couldn't be more important.

You mentioned Alchemy Pay. You recently joined as a global strategic advisor. You had your pick of projects to join; why Alchemy Pay?

My sense is they're very focused on bridging the divide, and not looking at it as competitive between the crypto economy and the traditional economy. They’re trying to work in partnership with governments. They’re very focused on that fiat relationship, and providing confidence to customers and consumers and governments. Ease of experience and user experience is critical to this. But you need to couple that with the right kind of confidence that you can be secure, and have a sound mind, that this doesn’t have risk.

And ultimately, I think that's where the industry has to go. So I'm impressed with Alchemy Pay's approach and philosophy, because that’s what’s going to be required to ensure the promise of this industry and this technology is fully able to be realized by as many people across the planet as possible.

What’s your role at Alchemy Pay? Can you share anything in terms of your playbook for global strategy?

I'm just in the early days, so I'll just be a sounding board and hopefully can provide some counsel and guidance. But I spent some time at Uber and still do some work for them now. And there are some lessons there. Oftentimes with a new technology company – and we saw this with Airbnb, too – policymakers and regulators will say, "How do we fit this new thing into our old regulations?" And that generally doesn't work. I know that from being in government.

I mean, I remember when Barack Obama asked us to review every regulation that was on the books, to make sure it was still fit for its purpose. And we got rid of hundreds of them, if not thousands, that might have made sense 30 years ago, but didn't make sense anymore.

You view crypto regulation as inevitable, right?

There has to be new regulations. I think on the government side, there has to be a sense of, “Okay, let's not fit this new thing into old rules. How do we fashion new rules?” But those rules have to protect the public. There has to be transparency. There has to be accountability. So I think with companies like Alchemy Pay, and across the industry, there's going to have to be a sense that you're going to be looked at as a financial institution, and there will be requirements that come with that.

The question is, can the regulators find the right spot so there’s confidence for consumers, and there's transparency, without basically strangling the industry?

Are you concerned that if the government does not get this right, then the innovation might leave the US?

Maybe I'm wrong, but I happen to think that 10, 20, 30 or 40 years from now, this [crypto and blockchain tech] can continue to be growing and an important part of our society and economy. You want to make sure that a lot of that is fostered here in the United States, not overseas.

So I think that's going to be an interesting dance over the next months and years: Where does this shake out? If you regulate crypto and blockchain as you would have traditional financial offerings, you're not gonna get the full promise of that. But on the company's side, you have to understand that there will be regulations. And I think smart companies like Alchemy Pay are welcoming that.

You said that 10, 20, 30, 40 years from now, innovation could go overseas. And to your point, there are already companies in the crypto space that are thinking of leaving. [It’s happening.] So I would agree, it’s urgent. How hopeful are you that something will actually get done, that there will be smart regulation enacted?

I'm cautiously hopeful. And my point about 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 years is that I happen to believe, unlike some of the skeptics, that crypto and blockchain and certainly Web3 are just going to get increasingly important. Right now, you’re right, I think the United States is not in the best position, in terms of the signals that it's sending, but that could get worse.

I think a lot of what we've seen coming out of Europe [in terms of regulation] is pretty promising. You see countries like France and the Emirates, I think, really embracing this technology and industry, but with smart rules and regulations. So there's some really important positive signs.

Can you put your policy hat on for a moment? How should the government be thinking about crypto regulation?

If I was thinking about this from a policymaker standpoint, there's two things from a United States standpoint that are important. One, you don't want this to become an industry that gets birthed and supported outside of the United States.

And then two, you don't want to turn it into something that’s basically an offering that the big banks are offering, as you kill some of the startup energy around it. Those are the principles I'd be careful about.

The next six to nine months are gonna be crucial here in the United States. The more consistent the rules are worldwide, the better off we'll be – I think as an industry and as a society.

You have such an interesting perspective here, because you’ve been on both the government side and the private sector. So imagine there’s a negotiating table and you can give a piece of advice to both the government side and the private industry side. What do you tell them?

I think first of all, it starts with your point of view, your body language and your spirit. Both sides need to want to get something done. So on the private industry side, you have to understand that the government is going to get increasingly involved in this space, and you have to just say, "Okay, that's what it is.“ I think there are some companies and founders and CEOs that are probably desirous of that – and others less so.

And I think on the government side, you have to lean forward and say, "Okay, we want to make sure that crypto and blockchain and Web3 can prosper. We want to make this work. But we’re going to have the right safeguards around that.”

I think then from the private industry side, you have to understand there's still a huge deficit of education about how this works.

What do you mean exactly?

My view is that there's probably a lot of law enforcement officials around the world that would tell regulators in the financial space that this [crypto and blockchain tech] has been really, really important to them. And then there’s the money that people save [by using cryptocurrency], particularly at the lower income spectrum. Yes, we all wish policymakers knew everything there was about everything. And maybe they should, but they don't. So you have to spend a lot of time educating, answering questions, but also listening.

If you could wave a magic wand and enact any regulation of your own, what would you like to see?

If I can wave a magic wand, it would just be for both sides to understand that we’re gonna have to have some elasticity. From the government side, we're gonna have to have some innovation in how we think about regulations that work with this industry. And for the industry to understand that the government is going to have a fairly heavy hand here. So you’re going to have to partner with them.

What else do you see as the potential upside for blockchain and crypto and web3?

My guess is that we haven't scratched the surface yet, in terms of really thinking through the promise of blockchain. I think about it even from a governmental standpoint, maybe ultimately blockchain is the layer that gives us confidence that we can do things like mobile voting in the future.

We already do so many things on our devices, whether that's banking, signing legal documents, or healthcare or education, and my great fear is that voting will be the very last thing we do. And that to me is tragic, because I think you can build a system that's secure that allows people to participate in their democracy from the comfort of their home, in a matter of seconds.

Obviously, we cannot do that unless we're a thousand percent sure of the security. But my guess is we can get there.

Love the potential of mobile voting. And how about expanding financial inclusion?

Well, I think you already see proof of this in terms of usage in Africa, in Latin America, in some other parts of the world where you have a huge percentage of the population unbanked. They are adopting crypto and using these platforms. So I don't think that's a question. Clearly, there's a huge need being filled.

And the other thing about this, ultimately, from a policy and governmental standpoint, is that so much of the focus needs to be: “How do we get more access for lower-income people to financial products? How do we save them time? How do we save money?” You know, this is the promise.

It's happening now, where people can do remittances in a matter of seconds. It's all transparent, it's secure, it's done very inexpensively compared to other traditional means. So ultimately, I think the government is not going to embrace these things and basically market them until you have a set of rules and regulations.

But once you have that, I'd like to see governments openly talk about the value of these platforms, once they can say with close to 100% certainty that they're confident in the security, and the transparency and governance around this. That should be a great way to create more financial inclusion and to give people real options around saving money and time.

Are you hopeful this will happen?

I know it sounds naive right now, but my hope is that as you look at the crystal ball, you see more government officials and even departments understanding that, “Hey, we want to connect people to these services, because it provides great value to them.“ That’s going to be hard right now when we’re in this kind of  gray area, but ultimately, I think as more governments kind of find a way forward, then hopefully they include this in their strategy.

And that's really exciting to me when you think about the promise and the potential.

Coming back full circle to 2008 and the “audacity of hope,” that’s a nice hopeful note to end on. Thanks David, and best of luck to you and Alchemy Pay.

Thanks, Jeff. It was great to be with you. Good to go down memory lane, but also to talk about the future.

Alchemy Pay’s mission is to promote the global adoption of cryptocurrency, by connecting fiat and crypto economies via mainstream-friendly payment solutions. You can find out more here.