Jun 21, 2024

Want to mine a meme coin? ElphaPex’s newest unit mines Litecoin and Dogecoin through a process called merge mining!

Video transcript

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Visit Foreman dot mm with Foreman, you're not just managing a mining operation, you're setting a new standard in the industry accelerated by compass is the premier accelerator program for Bitcoin mining sites at any stage of development. Our managed services provide expert guidance in site procurement, construction energy agreements and mining operations. Compass helps clients meet timelines and expectations for operational excellence from Greenfield to retrofits and everything in between. Don't just mine except visit compass mining dot IO. Now to discover how accelerated by compass can power your success. Are you a retail or institutional investor interested in Bitcoin mining companies? The Miner Mag brings you free data and analysis from all major NASDAQ listed Bitcoin mining operations to know who stands out, check out visualize metrics and data dependent stories at the Miner maag.com. Hey, welcome back to the mining pod. We were really interesting show today. Talk about Dogecoin and Light Coin. That's not something we typically do on the show. But we definitely want to have these guys on to talk about a new Asic they manufacturing. That's alphabet X. Wow, I really butcher that alphabet. Sorry. It's alphabet from Foundation Logic. Ben in Payne. Welcome to the show. How are you guys doing today? Great, great. Thanks as well. Cool. Well, let's just dive right into it. I think uh the interesting thing for Bitcoin miners here is like diversifying revenue and saying like, ok, there's like different ass we can purchase and we can take a look at these and say like these might be uh another stream of revenue, I think for people who are just interested in Dogecoin General, like for whatever reason, people who are into Dogecoin really like the idea of mining it as well. Um So there's that and then of course, there's like this small light coin mafia that exists online and I've definitely had like a lot of Twitter fights with them. So they'll probably please be talking about this as well. Um let's go right to you guys and just kind of get the bio and then talk about the company as well. So, Ben, I'll to you first and then over to pay, then you tell us a little bit like your bio and then let's go to the company after that. Yeah. So my name is Ben and uh I uh I am in the San Francisco Bay area. So I have been in the tech industry for more than a decade um working in companies like Nokia and Apple uh for many years uh as a software engineer. Um and I joined the uh Foundation Logic company a while back. Uh I think it's almost two years now. Um So, uh yeah, the company itself is uh established. Uh um more than four years I believe um like a lot of uh research and development has been done in the A E as well as the software side for our minor machines. Um Yeah, so uh in foundation logic, um I uh I'm uh I'm doing my title is the VP of product. So I'm mostly involved in the product management and, and also like I talk to a lot of people attending a lot of shows pretty much on the technical side. Love it. Pain to you. Yeah. Pain here. Uh So I'm the uh on the other side, I'm on the business side. Uh I'm the director of Biz Dev for Foundation Logic, which is the company behind Alpha E. Uh So I used to live in, similar to them, I used to live in San Francisco. Uh I've been, I've been living there for the past 10 years, finally had the courage to, to move to New York. Um But my background has always been uh quite diverse as well. I've been working at different tech companies in the bay. Um just like kind of like all the other tech folks in the bay. Uh So, you know, my first job was at Tesla, I was doing global supply chain there. Uh And then I moved to another Chinese ev start up also in the Bay. Um And then uh kind of changed uh a little bit in terms of the, the, the, the, the, the track I went to Postmates uh started doing strategy. Uh Eventually we got acquired by Uber by Uber Eats. Uh That's when I moved to tiktok. Uh So I was at tiktok for the past uh 2.5 years uh again, doing strategy. Uh And then eventually, when I left tiktok, I was uh overseeing the business development for our live stream business unit. Uh So for me coming to crypto has been quite recent. Uh I've always been a, the reason I guess the reason behind it is I've always been an investor myself in crypto earlier days when Doge was going crazy when you know gamestop was going crazy. I was there or even a little bit before that. Um So I thought it's always thought it's a very bullish industry to be in. Uh So, you know, this is a perfect opportunity for me to uh you know, make the switch and then really come in with my uh you know, diverse background that, that, that's really helping with what we're doing now. Uh You know, especially considering it's a, I still think it's a very infant uh industry, right? There's so many things we can do, there's so many opportunities uh which, which makes it super exciting for me, right? Because I've always seen myself as an entrepreneur in a sense. So I like to wear different hats. I like to, you know, venture to different parts of the business and really kind of, you know, help the entire echo system grow in a sense. I love that you've named a few interesting companies there. So um we'll see like the tech grind continue. Let's go through the foundation launch team and Alpha facts and what you guys are working on itself. Um Mostly it says like Coin Dogecoin Minor, which we actually threw up a video on the block space youtube channel on the shorts a week ago. So I gotta go check that out and see how it's doing because I think, you know, pen, you and I talk in person and it was like these videos always do so well, just like low clicks of basics. Um But let's hear about the Asic that you guys are uh now selling kind of out on the market. Um Definitely I have been seeing on a few youtube channels as well, but I'll throw that one to Ben and then um we'll get your thoughts on that as well. Pay. Yeah. So uh we launched our first product, the DG One Doge and my minor. Um I think in March this year. Um So uh later than that, we also uh like getting our uh pro version of the original T one called the T one plus, which has a higher hash rate. Um So the teacher one has 11 gig of hash rate and the digi one plus the pro model has a 40 giga of hash rate and both models uh like air cooling and they have been uh selling pretty well. Yeah. Um I think the global mining community, uh they, they are pretty popular in the global mining community and it's pretty well received so far. I think like, like Ben foreshadowed earlier, the, you know, we, we released our product this year, right, pretty recently, kind of back to back. But the R and D work that went behind the scene really, you know, went on for, you know, the past 3 to 4 years. Uh So, you know, the, the, we want to make sure the product when we release it, uh they're, they're high quality, they're reliable, right? So that's um you know, the company not new. The company has been here. A lot of work has been put into developing the miners. Um And, well, like you said, right? You see a lot of videos on youtube we work with, you know, some, a lot of the, the kill all the creators in the industry, like hobbyists and, and a few other folks, you know, red pen, the mining to really, you know, one is to kind of get the word out there. And two is because how we kind of position ourselves in the market, right? We don't want to just work with a certain group of the miners, right? Like Michael is primarily to work with the key accounts, right? The bigger miners. But as a brand, you know, we want to be everyone's mining partner, right? So it's not just the big folks in the, in the space, but also like we want to empower more of the smaller miners, especially, you know, Ben and I went to empower earlier this year. And one of the key learnings we had is there are so many people, especially in Texas who have, you know, a few megawatts of power who have a few acres of land who wants to get into mining. Uh But they don't really have the information knowledge or the equipment to do so. Uh So as a company, we want to be here to, you know, work with the bigger guys, but also empower and work with the uh the so called retail miners, right, to help them get into the mining space uh to, to provide them with easier access, right to all this information and the hardware uh because eventually to us that helps, you know, everyone, help all of us in this ecosystem to help events and make it more um you know, easier to access, right to, to everyone. Why is the company? Are you guys focused on this light coin Dogecoin model where we have a slate of new Bitcoin miners coming out from Ady to block. Uh I've even seen a few other ones recently that are soon to be announced. But like, how are you guys thinking about being in like this one specific market with Litecoin Dogecoin? Um And I think we'd be remiss not to mention. Of course, I like the reason it's a Litecoin Dogecoin miner is because you're able to merge mine Dogecoin with Litecoin and that's the, the whole impetus for that. So um I will throw that question up to Ben, but I'm really curious to get your thoughts on that as well paying like, you know, why this market, why do you guys go through the the slog of creating a new hardware device which is like probably one of the most competitive markets out there. Uh And if we're being reasonable, it's very, very hard to make, make an Asic. Uh we throw to you first and then one, get your thoughts pain So, uh I think that the first uh is that uh we are very interesting and we think like the Doge coin and is a very uh like a pro uh co because uh it uh it's very popular among the, like the younger generations and also it's uh um supported by many of the big guys in the, in the world, right? Like Elon Musk is a firm supporter of the Dogecoin. And we also see the great potential of uh Dogecoin being um actually used as a decentralized uh money to actually like buy something. You can, people can actually use the Doge coin to buy something instead of just like holding it and not using it at all. Um So that's one and the other is uh we feel the, I mean, the space in the uh Bitcoin mining is already very crowded. So uh yeah, as a start up, II I think it will be better for us to like focus on the like something we are good at first and then maybe think about something else later. So, uh yeah, that is why we picked the group uh as our um like the entry point in, in, in this space. Um For sure. So I, I echo everything Ben said. Uh and you know, talking about Elon Musk, uh my old boss, I guess at Tesla for, for about three years. Uh I've actually been, you know, poking my old colleagues who saw at Tesla saying, hey, like, do you guys know if uh if, if Tesla still has like a crypto department, right? Like if so love to reach out. Uh So Elon, if you're listening to this would love to have a little chat. If you're interested in, in Doge mining, I would love to have a conversation there. I think that would be interesting. Um Yeah, to Ben's point, I think uh for us, uh the reason when you know, there are many, many different reasons why we picked this, this track is very strategic, right? So number one, the Bitcoin space obviously crowded, right, very crowded. Uh So for us, you know, we believe in the future of script, we believe in the future of Doge, right? With these bigger backers uh with the the upside, right? So if you look at, you know, I'm a more of a numbers guy myself as well. So if you look at the the previous uh you know, price performance, uh if you compare the price, uh you know, trend of Dogecoin and like coin to Bitcoin, right? Especially if you look at post having performance, uh Bitcoin has always gone up right over time, but in the same duration, in the same amount of time, uh like coin and and Doge coin has always gone up a lot, a lot more compared to Bitcoin, right? So, uh financially from a numbers perspective, um with all the potential is there with the president has been there and we believe in the future, you know, potential of, of these two coins, right? Especially for Doge coin is really the people's coin, right? There's a strong cultural phenomenon behind it. And uh you know, we believe and you know, more and more uh you know, coin applications, right? Like utilities of the coins are coming up, right? For example, you can pay by certain things from Tesla, you can, you can pay for, you know, membership or one on X nowadays too. So it seems a lot more potential coming right for, for these coins and and you know the fact that it is a merged mining uh uh you know algorithm, it offers more security to the network and it also offers you kind of more, yeah, I see light coin as the the money you earn, right as the floor and the Dogecoin as kind of the the seeing that offers more upside. Uh So you have to have a pretty good combination of the two worlds in a sense. Um And uh so, so yeah, the reason are quite diverse and the reason why uh we kind of pick this year as the the the the launching point, right is also because of the ha uh as we've seen after this having uh it's a little different, right? Because this happened the previous three having we hit all time high in Bitcoin post having, but this time we hit all that had before the having. Uh and obviously now the the ha the Bitcoin hash price is suffering a little bit, right? So, and also, well, like kind of like you mentioned earlier. Uh we want to be here to, to offer a fantastic uh alter, you know, alternative option to, to all the miners out there to help people diversify, to help people, um you know, derisk and offer them the cash flow uh that, that that's going to be there for a long time. Uh So that's, you know, kind of answer your question earlier. That's why we picked this year um to, to launch your product and then we picked this very specific time. Yeah, I wanna jump a little deeper into the situation like when doge coin because I think it's like an interesting story that a lot of miners, something think about. And it's like in crypto, we often have like these coins that go parabolic for just a minute, right? The speculative gambles. And there, there's often this conflation of like legitimate projects and speculative gambles and I think Dogecoin, yes, there's going to be utility on it. Yes, there might be people like using it for whatever and that would be the utility like the payments that you kind of mentioned with Tesla. But like at the end of the day, it is do coin and we're going to have fun with it and it goes up every four years pretty regularly, like going back every single bull market and miners are in a very good position to catch that if they have infrastructure around. So uh kind of going back to what you were just saying there, pain there is like light coin is for like the base and the Dogecoin is like this. The extra juice on that is that's how you guys are thinking about it. Like light coin is going to be like the base revenue for most miners running this thing. And then like every once in a while you kind of catch like an uptick with the price of Dogecoin, you just kind of make a lot of money on it. Is that kind of like the revenue play for this sort of Asic is that how you speak to miners about it? Yep. So um there, there's a uh so again, I'm a numbers guy. So I'm going to throw, throw a few numbers. Um So if you look at, you know, do, for example, right? The third Bitcoin having, within the calendar, you're following the third having uh I believe Bitcoin the price went up went, you know, 400 times, right? Compared to before having during that same time span, Dogecoin went up by 20,000% right? So number one, the upside is, is definitely there. Um And then if you look at, you know, the kind of difference or how we see like coin and Dogecoin like coin to begin with is a is a, I guess you call it quote unquote improvement from, from Bitcoin, right? Lower transaction costs, all that kind of good stuff. So bit like coin is the largest, has a larger transaction volume, right? On the pay, I believe nowadays. Uh So, you know, by nature it has different and functions in that sense, right? So um you know, like, so mining like offers you that uh that exposure and and nowadays if you look, if you look at the profitability share of script mining uh Doge is as a large chunk of it, right? So, um and, and, and uh we, we don't need to wait for years and years for for bull market, right? Sometimes a tweet or, or some movement from, from Elon or some news uh can really launch Doge into, into bull market. So it's very easy for for miners and investors to take advantage of those moments, right? Um And then I guess one last one I want to have there is uh for with a lot of the the po partners we have, right? For example, we or for example, nice hash uh we work with them and the primary reason is they offer uh payouts in Bitcoin as well, right? So the the one concept I've been preaching personally is you know, why be a Bitcoin Maxi when you can be a revenue maxi, right? Because because we're in this game called mining for, for a reason is to make a buck, right? I think it's end of the day is a lot of a lot of its profitability driven. Um So, you know, as a, as a script miner, we offer the profitability, right? And if you have any sort of Bitcoin holding strategy, you can, you can always choose to get paid in Bitcoin on a daily basis and have and do whatever the same strategy you have. So what really what we're offering is we're offering to make your, your rack space more dense, right? By having this minor offers you higher profitability and that's that you're making more Bitcoin using our machine, Mining Dogecoin Litecoin than using an actual Bitcoin machine, right? So that's really what it is at its essence. Um So, you know, those are, that's kind of how I see this and that's the eventually we're still contributing to the, to the Bitcoin network. We're still contributing to the proof of work. Uh consensus algorithm. Gotcha. And I don't mean to get you cold footed here, flatfooted here, but any numbers off the top of your head about like sort of profitability between those two things where it's like if you're mining, say like Dogecoin and like going to do some like nice hash how much more Bitcoin you could earn? Um Again, I didn't ask for the numbers beforehand. So I don't want to get you flat footed, but I am curious if you have anything off the top of your head or like historic numbers, you kind of see your trends for sure. No, I, I definitely, we came prepared. Um So according to the nice hash calculator, right? So if you're comparing uh a pretty common, uh Bitcoin Minor model, which is, you know, I 19 J pro, you know, you're making about $2 just, just a little bit above $2 a day, right? In terms of revenue. Uh and if you're looking at DJ one plus, which is our latest model, uh you're making about $27 per day. Um So the the the difference is pretty massive there, right? So I think, I think daily cash flow is also different from, you know, your return on investment, time, time line. How fast do you break even? Um So in terms of ro I, you know, if you're looking at DG one D one plus at the current price, uh you're breaking even in about 7 to 8 months, right? Uh But if you're comparing again, comparing that to S 19 J pro or S 21 you're looking at anywhere between 25 to 30 months. Uh So the gap there is also quite large. So having higher daily revenue, profitability, better cash flow, shorter and shorter breaking in time. I think what that allows you to do is to continue to reinvest into your operation, right? And provide you with enough cash flow so it can cover your energy cost. So you can you know, do all these other things. Um So from a members perspective, you know, to me, it makes all the sense in the world, in the competitive world of Bitcoin mining, one name stands out clean spark, America's Bitcoin miner at clean spark efficiency isn't just a goal. It's our standard. Our sophisticated facilities are built and led by expert teams who care about Bitcoin and the communities we work in scale. We've mastered it. Our large scale operations have set us apart in the industry as examples of community oriented building. Our track record speaks for itself. We navigate the complexities of the new economy with precision and with skill, continuously achieving operational milestones. Curious about how we do it. We invite you to discover the story behind Clean Spark success at Clean spark.com ben. I want to give the opportunity to jump in there and add some thoughts but really quick. The one thing I want to point out is actually a trend that we've been talking about on the mining pot for quite a while. It's summer now and we're going to see the increase in miners using the energy credits as a scheme to generate excess revenue. Uh They're not gonna be mining Bitcoin, right? They're gonna be turning off and they're gonna be earning revenue that way. And I, I think that kind of folds into your point pain about like in mining, it's about maximizing revenue with whatever you have, right? Like yes, you want to protect the Bitcoin network. Yes, you wanna be a participant in it, but you also need the revenue maximizing. And so that's where something like this does come in. Um I am interested in seeing like what Bitcoin Maximus and those kind of folks think about this and it's probably like an off topic uh because we're more focused on like the Asic and the culture or Asic and energy here on the show. But um it, it is something just to kind of bring up really quickly. That's like there are a crossover between Bitcoin Maxwell and some miners. And sometimes you can see that in operations where some miners only run Bitcoin Bitcoin miners and then other operations, you know, they'll do a lot of stuff just to maximize revenue. And I, I think that's typically the miners that do a little better because they're, they're willing to kind of play in different sandboxes. If you will. Uh Ben, I will throw it to you just to add on to anything that Payne is saying. And then I want to jump over to a few other questions. Yeah. So yeah, great point. Uh That pain just said. Uh I, I just want to add that because the script uh POW network is uh like uh still small compared to the BT C uh network. So uh like the script minors uh will have a longer uh I mean, uh income earning life compared to the BT c minors because you can maybe like make the minors, script minors will be more profitable uh for a longer period of time, right? Compared to the um become miners. So that means like after you have the um uh ro I period, you will have like longer period of time to earn extra income. Well, just I want to quickly jump in here. I think you brought up a really, really good point, right? Because a lot of the the the miners we work with are based in Texas. Uh So granted our our machine handles a very wide range of temperature, right? I understand that the energy cost is we cannot control the temperature. So curtailment, I think one of the the, you know, request coming from, you know, one of our potential partners is is the ability for the miner to quickly run down and run up, right? When the energy cost is high, they want to have. So we have this model called idle mode or sleeping mode. So that allows our miners to quickly quickly run down, run down if you don't want to mine, right? But also want to keep the miner active and then when the energy cost becomes low, then you can quickly run back back up again. Um So, you know, in that sense, you know, we talk so I think about the strategies that the miners has, right? Because if you're mining Bitcoin, your break, even energy costs is probably quite low because the hash price right now. So that forces you to have to, you know, curtail or run down, run up for script mining though because of breaking prices is quite high, right? Like even if you have 10 cents per kil hour, energy costs, you can still, you can definitely still be profitable mining script, right? So I think in that sense, you know, working with a lot of the miners in Texas that gives them the freedom or the flexibility to keep up their up time, right? Instead of having to, you know, think about curtailment or, or, or, you know, do adjustments manually and frequently in that sense to, to kind of run down and run down the minor. So I think that's another benefit that it can potentially offer from operational perspective. Yeah, I love that really quick before we move on to another subject, where is like a good resource for miners to like plug in numbers, like hard numbers. What sort of like calculators do you guys use? Yeah, we have our in house calculator that we're happy to share or present or have a version now for the public. And so it's a, it's a, you know, help from, got help from our partner Box Bridge and you know, they make these very calculations calculators. But 11 website I personally used that I started using uh when I first came to the industry is, is my ASIC, I think they have all of the, the numbers there already and just plug in your energy cost and it fit all the profitability numbers. So I think that's a pretty good, pretty good tool to use. Ok. We'll include that in the show notes if anyone's interested in kind of, you know, playing around and seeing what the numbers look like if they were to install a rack or. So, uh let's talk about how you guys are thinking this fits into a fleet. And then I do want to move over and start talking about like the hardware side of this and the story of being a start up, I really like emphasizing that because the hardware stories are really hard. Um And you guys are kind of taking this on uh against a giant with it and having their own like Quin doch Quin minor as well. Uh But let's go to the more practical part of this before we go over to the, the start up story. Um So Payne or Ben, whoever is better equipped to answer this question, how does this fit into a mining fleet? What does the, the chassis of the machine look like the form factor in the machine? Does it work with standard containers out there? Uh What kind of cords do you need to plug in? What sort of like software we're using? Do you get it? Does it work with something like a foreman? Does it work with most mining pools? Some of those like a simple answers to get people off the ground running and mining. Um So, um uh we, we have been working with Foreman to have our miners integrated within the system. So now, um Forman, if the client is using form uh software, um they can easily manage our miners along with all other manufacturers uh models. Um So for us, uh the physical uh form factor is uh similar to uh like the major uh miners like S uh S 19 and S 21. So they, they are made to be as compatible to the rack space as possible. Um Yeah, and as for the power cords and they are pretty uh industrial standard like uh we use AC 19 quarts for DG one plus and we use C 13 quarts power cords for this DG one. Um They, they are pretty standard equipment, nothing special, uh easy to uh purchase. Um Yeah. So uh as for the power wise, they are also very similar to all the Bitcoin miners out there. So uh like it's a very easy swap and uh install a type of snake. So, yeah. Yeah. No, I think that's kind of the goal that we have, right, as, as a kind of the approach we had is to make it as seamless and easy as possible for people who already have their operation set up. We have the racking the container to easily just plug in and play, right. We don't want to make anything special that you have to get somewhere else. So that's definitely go again, kind of fits into the, the narrative of, you know, making it easily accessible for everyone in the industry. Uh And for, you know, maybe a little foreshadow of our future product as well, right, in, in different uh you know, the phases, we will make it as, you know, easily compatible as possible to all the existing equipment out there. Nice. And what about, uh, the repair and manufacturing side? I think I kind of grilled you in, in person about this pain. When I saw you in Austin. I was like, how do you guys do repairs? Because that's been a really big headache for a lot of miners who have purchased from smaller providers out there. And they've been like, ok, where do I get a repair because things break? That's just the hardware market. Uh, you know, my Macbook is four years old and it's not doing as high as it once was. So, like you can buy from your product and there's gonna be issues. What sort of repairs or aftermarket products do you guys provide? And how does it integrate into something that um, uh, another miner might have on the shelf already? So they can just sort of like fix it and keep going. Um, but I'll throw it over to you paying for that. Yeah. Um, so, so Ben can, can talk a bit more about our repair cap capability in North America. It's a strong is growing and we hope to grow further as we have more a bigger pre presentation in the market. Um But uh so I kind of want to break it down into perspectives. So, number one, we have a partner firm right in Canada, near Montreal, where we've been testing about 250 units of RDG one there for the past, you know, I think 7 to 8 months now. Uh again, right, we use those minors as for testing for iteration purposes for continuous improvement. And during the 67 to 8 months, we've seen very, very low issue rate, right? I believe, correct me if I'm wrong then. But I think we saw one minor with a af issue and then the other minor with the PSU issue. Obviously, neither one of them is major is not nothing, you know about the half or, or nothing you need to send to somewhere to repair, simple, simply replace the parts, right. So, um so that's very good that we saw. And again, we want to make sure that the product we released uh are reliable right through these testing phase. So that's number one, number two. Again, I'll, I'll leave it to BEN to talk about repair services. Uh But, you know, we have warehouses in North America as well. Uh And so we'll make sure that we'll have spare parts readily available in the North American market uh for people to order for people to, to be able to replace the fans, the PS US or, or the uh the the the the shell, right, like themselves easily on their farm, right? So we want to make that very easily accessible as well from, from logistics, logistics perspective. Yeah. So add to that, that uh at the beginning, like uh during the uh design and manufacturing processes, we utilize a very high grade industrial components so that uh like the materials and the workmanship in the machine, like uh we make sure it will run uh like for the long term. Um again, but uh like for uh after sales support, we have uh set up uh uh local uh technical support center uh in North America name near the Montreal area. So we have a team of very experienced uh uh um like a support specialists that have been in the mining industry for a long time to answer any technical or set up issues uh when using the miners or even like uh help running, setting up the, the, the farm. Um So other than that, uh we have uh a repair facility uh in the Texas, Dallas, Texas region. So that any issues uh that just uh um I mean, it can be fixed uh within like the North America. Um So to provide the timely support in the same region. Um Yeah. And also as the uh as Ben said, like the, the spare parts and, and, and the components are all available uh locally in the US warehouse. So they can also make sure that whenever uh like any machine needs any extra spare parts, it can be uh deliver in a timely manner. And we are uh actively expanding uh our technical support and uh service uh capacity in North America. Um So to help uh with any uh future uh repair needs, we quickly add on to that. I think the, the philosophy we have there again, right? As, as a new manufacturer, new manufacturer, uh that's, you know, new to the scene. Uh we want to be able to, to bridge some of the gaps that we've seen industry, especially when it comes to, you know, repair services when it comes to after self support, when it comes to, you know, offering channels of communication with the team directly here. Uh So those are the areas we want to kind of, you know, focus on and then help the industry improve, right? We want to be able to go and beyond in those, in those areas where we can kind of maybe put status standards, right? Moving forward. Uh So again, more competition, I think the better it is for the whole ecosystems, eventually better for the end consumers, right? So I think it needs someone to come into the scene and, and really kind of help set a standard and that's our right. We want to be the best when it comes to that, we want to be the standard setter when it, when it comes to those areas need ASIC. Help check out bit of mind what a bit means. Certified repair shops located in Washington State with satellite offices in Colorado, Oklahoma and Texas PSU us hash boards, immersion setups in and out of warranty. Pa. Vam. Mind has you covered? Want to train your technicians, bring Vam to your site for hands on training in the art of Asic repair complete with Bitman AM TC certification. Contact VAM Mind today at Dan at VM asic.com. Again, that's Dan at VM asic.com. When you think of Asic repair, think vitamine, let's finish up talking about start up game for hardware. So it's actually kind of good timing because we've had a few different companies who have been more on the uh bleeding edge focus on maybe like alternate markets in a six or doing something completely different like you guys. Uh And so it kind of fits into like a few shows that we're going to be putting out over the month of June and July. Um, tell me a little bit about working at a hardware start up. How do you guys get access to foundries? Are you guys more of a fabulous uh uh production unit or do you guys like build stuff and then work direct with the foundry? How do you guys think about like the form factor assembly, different parts in there. Uh And then a little bit later, I'll ask a few questions about like competing with um the bigger guys, like bit main but uh Ben, yeah, I'll hurt to you first for that but feel free to toss it down to pain if, if need be. Um Tell me a little bit about like how you guys are working as a hardware start up. Yeah. So uh we have a team of very experienced uh like basic design engineers um that have been uh a lot of experience from many of the uh from like who used to work in like very large uh uh like uh basic related companies in the tech industry before. And they are very experienced and we have like set up the team working together for like a much longer years than, than me basically. Yeah, they have been in the industry for a long time and, and they put a lot of effort in in this R and D and uh yeah. Um we also uh working with uh like the latest uh uh foundry technology. Um So we get the support from uh the fund side with advanced technology so that we can achieve very high energy efficiency. Um Yeah, but uh as you said, we, we are pretty much working as a fabulous design now and then we will, once we have the design, we will send to the foundry to help us manufacture and I believe that is pretty much all like the the the the the companies in this space are working at the similar working model. Um Got you, can you guys reveal what and you guys use or is that under lock and key? Yeah, we we are using the Samsung Fund and uh yeah, we are using their very advanced like a manufacturing processes. Uh just quickly ch in here, I think. Uh so like Ben mentioned, right, we have a very good relationship with, with Samsung, right? In terms of getting the supply of the wafers. So from a, from a business perspective, right, you know, for us, we want to be able to help our, our client. So let us say, you know, corner part of the market and obviously that requires a lot of resources and prep planning. Um but, you know, because the relationship we have with Samsung uh for us, right? Like it doesn't matter what your goal is, our goal is here to help you achieve your goal as a, as a minor. So as long as we have, you know, enough time for, for a heads up, we'll be able to provide the hard work that you're, you're looking for as a minor love it. Do you guys have any thoughts on like the Samsung part of things I am interested in that because like it does seem that that main kind of has like its thing with TS MC and then everyone else kind of goes to Samsung. Uh There just seems to be like the relationship there is like TS MC only has so much allocation. Uh But any thoughts on, like the relationship with Samsung seems to be like good, good relationship. But like, what are some of the other teams are working there if you know of them? And like, how do you guys kind of think about like getting your allocations in there per year uh for making an Asic like this? Yeah, I don't really have the exact numbers to share at this moment. Uh Yeah, but uh yeah, um I mean, we really have a good relationship with the guys in Samsung and uh that is why we can um get the production capacities for their advance manufacturing processes. Uh like for us, even as a start up, right? So um I think uh from what we have been talking to Samsung, they also committed long term support uh for us. Um So moving forward, uh um I'm very optimistic about our capacity as well as uh the support from the most advanced technology side from Samsung function. Um And then, uh you know, if you, if any of the listeners have been, you went to uh Blockchain live in Dubai, uh You probably saw that we have a video on repeat playing there as it's uh uh So Charles from, from Samsung, uh C TCP for great kind of business, right? Basically, B for a relationship for, for this partner moving forward. Right. Uh And again, mining disrupt, we're going to be playing something similar, right. So just to kind of showcase the, the relationship we have with Samsung. Um So, you know, if you're going to be a mining disrupt, swing by and take a look at the videos. Awesome. Ok. Let's finish up talking about, bit me a little bit, so bit main definitely is like kind of pushing their uh like Windows square miner as well. They have them for a while and you guys are kind of going like uh up against them and probably a few other miners out there as well, sort of in this subsector of the industry. How do you guys think about competing against like someone who's larger of? I asked the same question to the Bitcoin miners who are trying to grapple with PIN as well. So it's not a question that's like, and a lot of people aren't trying to figure out here as a sector is just like a little bit smaller. It's a subsector of, of Cryptocurrency mining. So um when you guys are competing with Bit Maine or maybe another provider out there, how do you guys kind of think about like how to be scrappy, how to be mobile, how to like uh do this from business strategy standpoint. Uh Pain. I know you and I talked in Austin about this a little bit. Uh You've got guys that really focused on like the paras side of things and trying to, uh make sure like the unit continues to have like really strong performance over time. Um So I'm assuming that's gonna be part of the answer, but I'm definitely interested in like some other thoughts too is like, what do you guys guys kind of do to like, keep that edge against the giant in the room? Paint? I'll throw it to you first, but definitely interested in Ben's thoughts for sure. I think that's, that's a great question. Well, I think that's a very frequently asked question as well. Uh So first of all, I think I want to preface this was by saying that, you know, we, we, we definitely appreciate what uh you know, some of these other bigger guys or the manufacturers have done for it industry, right? I think without uh without them, we probably wouldn't be here today, right? It just having such a thriving market and having so many people interested in mining. So, you know, definitely, you know, we, we acknowledge and appreciative work that they have done for, for us as a whole as an ecosystem. Um So, you know, when, when you're talking about competing with some of the other manufacturers, I think, first of all, um you know, we love to uh just to say that like, you know, again, the more options that we have, the more competition we have in the industry, especially when it comes to hardware, eventually it will benefit the end users, right. Which are, which are the consumers? I think that's all we want to see. Uh I talked to a lot of the, you know, the kols in industry or the miners for them. I think the first reaction has always been. Oh, wow, there's another option I can choose. That's amazing. Right? You don't have to just rely on or just work with, you know, the selective few manufacturers. So I think having more friendly competition in this space is better for everyone. It helps us to improve our product, it helps the other manufacturer improve their product, it helps the miners have better product to use. So I think that's point number one, uh point number two is, you know, obviously we're very, very confident, I'm personally very confident in the pro in the quality of our product and the longevity of our product uh and the longevity and the resource that we have as a company. Um So we, you know, invest the majority of our, of our revenue back in the R and D, right? Because we have a long term commitment uh in, again, having the best product in the, in the, in the script space and having more, you know, product in different uh um you know, in different verticals as well. Uh So we, we really value uh the amount of resources we pour into, you know, I guess reinvest into R and D Right. So, uh, just, uh, um, I guess a way of saying that, uh, you know, we'll, we'll be here for the long haul. We're here to, uh, really provide, provide good, good hardware and equipment. Uh, in terms of the, you know, the specs and everything, I believe everyone already knows what they announced for all night. Um, and, and I think the one thing that we're not so sure about is really what the, what's going to be the price point, right. Again, I think in this game really is about uh you know, again, as a business, right? It's about making the numbers make sense. Uh So, you know, if we're comparing, you know, return, return investment timeline or a break even point, what, what that is for nine versus our product, I'm not sure. Right. I know as much as you guys do. So I think that's uh uh uh you know, a thing to, to, to, to take a look at, right, once we have more information on the pricing. Uh but in terms of the, the, the, you know, in terms of the quality of our products, right? We're super confident. Uh So again, I think end of the day, it's about making the numbers make sense. It's about making the, making it work for the business. What's here? Just last final thoughts for closing out, what are some things you'd like to articulate to Bitcoin miners, potential customers, anyone else out there as we close up or maybe even just skeptics. They were like, yeah, I just want to mine Bitcoin. Um I will throw it first to Ben and then we'll paying close out. Yeah. So uh I think uh like we um yeah, we start as uh uh everyone's mining partner. Um So we are very humble and we want to be very friendly. Um We want to uh be uh close friends to our mining uh partners. Um So that is why we come in Hubble and we want to provide the best service uh in, in, in, in the, in, in the like the sector. Um So that is what we are aiming for to help everyone uh to mine. So that um like the pro proof of work network will be more healthier and uh also contribute to the future of this uh decentralized uh um like currency, right? And hopeful, hopefully, one day um we can use uh some of uh this decentralized Cryptocurrency as the real money, right? So, uh yeah, we want to be part of it and want to support the whole ecosystem, not just the hardware, but also software, the community, the developers and ultimately um everyone, yeah, for sure. Um good points then um you know, I think for us um you know, again, right? Like I think we talk a bit more about the, the more granular stuff about the product about the company. Uh But, you know, for me, when I, when I look at, you know, mining as a, as a whole, um, I think we're at a really good time. Right. I hope we're all hoping for, for the next cycle, the column, we're hoping for the full cycle to say, to stick around a little bit longer. Um, and even looking at, you know, something bigger, right. Looking at the politics, for example, I don't want normally talk about politics too much but it seems like, you know, it's becoming, you know, Bitcoin or, or, you know, doing funding through, through, through crypto is becoming, you know, a bit more prevalent, right? And, and sounds like, you know, a matter um who gets elected, uh we should or we have good policies to support this upcoming and booming industry, right? So that's, that's the hope. So, I think overall, you know, it is a good time. We have strong momentum, we want to keep the strong momentum going and we want to contribute kind of from our, from our end. Um And then what kind of answer your question earlier? Like, uh again, I think we're here to offer a very good alternative solution to offer diver diversification opportunity. Uh And we want to make it as easy as seamless as possible. It doesn't matter if you just want to focus on Bitcoin or if you're willing to venture out into, uh you know, something else, but that's also very reliable, that's been there for, for years. Right. Uh Instead of, you know, maybe investing in, in A I, right, which is more costly and, and, and more unknown in a sense. Uh So we're still in the proof of work realm. We're still offering uh, something, you know, the coins that's been out there for, for many years and we all know, kind of, you know, what's going on with the coins. Right. So, I think that's kind of how, you know, I see this and how we position ourselves. Um And then I guess just add a little bit about mining disrupt uh little little preview of of uh of mining ther. Uh we're going to be the biggest sponsor there. Uh So we're, we're super excited. We did block Chain lab in Dubai. So this one for us really kicks off in North America, right? Which is obviously what we, you know, want to focus on. So we're super excited. We're going to have a really big booth, we're going to have a few different sections. Uh You can come and see our miners run. You can see kind of how we will provide our repair services. You'll take, take apart a few minors, you can see the inside and we'll have a little section for content creation, right? So if you're a content creator, uh feel free to come sit around, take some videos, we can do some interviews. Um So it will be super cool. We'll have a, we'll provide a whole kind of end to end experience and we'll definitely look forward to, to seeing everyone there. Um, and, well, I heard you're gonna MC there this year as well, right? How, how do you, sorry, I'm interviewing you a little bit here. How do you, how do you see my name or what are you expecting? Uh, tell us a bit more. Yeah, so I'll be at my dis uh m seeing for two days like off and on like Dennis and I think some other people are also going to be MC, I'm looking forward to it. Uh It's nice to get all the miners in one room uh consensus. Not really many Bitcoin miners you popped in because it wasn't Austin Bitcoin Miami now Nashville, I think a decent miners attend, but it's more for the party scene. Mine disrupt does and be like where a lot of business is done uh and handshakes are done. So I'm looking forward to that. It just being around those people who are actually doing deals and also seeing new hardware because it's fun to see the hardware in person. Uh Often times you go to Bitcoin mine and like you see a lot of the same stuff just because like that's where the size is and it's cool to go to my instruct and see like where the bleeding edge stuff is or where the new stuff is happening. So, yeah, I'm looking forward to it as well. Um Definitely happy to give a plug right now for them. Go buy ticket. Just mind disrupt.com. I don't even know off the top of my head, but like go there and get a ticket. Um Thank you both for, for joining the mining pod. I appreciate your time. We'll see you down there. It's gonna be hard to miss you at disrupt with your big booth. So everyone go check them out, say hi to Ben and Payne. Um, and then if you want to talk to them, feel free to shoot them ad m do you guys have Twitter handles? You can give out. Yeah. Uh, so Twitter, I'm on Twitter. That's, uh, paying the con. So Paynethecong, uh, find me on linkedin. I'm pretty active there too is just paying con. Um, yeah, looking forward to, to connecting with, uh, with you guys. Yes, same as well. Yeah, we also have like our official alphabet Twitter as well as Linkin handler. Um, so you can find us there for any connection. Cool. Um, well, if I may just want to add one more thing, I think I told you this in person when I first came into the industry, you know, pretty much know nothing about mining, right? But, you know, I'm a quick learner. So I've been, you know, listening to a lot of different things watching youtube, uh, you know, for example, red Panda mining or hobbyist minor, they're kind of my first go to, for, to look at minor reviews, whatever, but really what I learned the most from was from listening to your podcast. I think you've done an amazing job, you know, including different players in the industry, from different perspectives. Uh I learned so much through your, your episodes and I'm a daily listener. So I really just want to, you know, say, thank you. I appreciate the work you do for, for this, for this ecosystem. I really appreciate it. Thanks man. I appreciate that. Yeah. No, I love getting conversations like uh you guys on the show because it's like a different sector, but it matters so much for Bitcoin mining. And so, yeah, that's the goal. It's like kind of help people grow their operations. Um So I appreciate that. Hey, we'll see you guys down in, down in Miami. We'll, we'll have some fun there. Thanks again. Uh Thanks, Ben. Thanks, Ben. Thanks. Appreciate you.

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